The conversation about the sudden stop of the NICE bus service has been growing at the end of the Embezzlement thread, so I thought we should bring it up to become it’s own topic. I’m going to copy many of the comments we already have and put them here to keep the discussion going.
John Austin is part of the Panhandle Area Council (PAC) which is a private business with a public partnership, I think. PAC is a bit obscure and many of us don’t understand it well. Maybe John can clarify its status for us.
Bill has included a link to the Sec. of State’s listing for PAC, which shows the Chairman as County Commissioner Rick Currie and the Sec./Treasurer as CdA City Councilwoman Deanna Goodlander. Are these people on the PAC board as individuals or as elected public officials, John?
PAC is connected with the NICE bus service through administration of some government grants, and John Austin is the point person for this connection, if I understand things correctly. So, let’s keep the conversation going…
Comment 47: “Lack of local funding is the reason for the discontinuation of rural services.”
What exactly does that mean? Does it mean that one or more of the agencies simply did not fund its portion? If so, then which ones and why? If the discontinuation was due to local funds not being available, then what can ITD and CTAI even do to restore services as soon as possible? Neither ITD nor CTAI has an obligation and maybe even no authority to make up local fund deficiencies. On the other hand, if one of the agencies fouled up administratively (e.g., failed to submit required paperwork in a timely way), I think the local community ought to know that, too, particularly if that agency is a recipient of public funds itself.
Comment by Bill — January 2, 2011 @ 3:44 pm
Bill, I have no idea what ITD means by lack of local funding. But then, I don’t administer those grant funds.
As far as an agency fouling up, the only parties to the NICE operation are NICE, which was the operator and ITD as the grantee. It will be curious to see how that all played out, but for now it is imperative that ITD find a new operator in the rural areas of Shoshone and Bonner counties and to get that Intercity service from Sandpoint to CDA reestablished.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 4:01 pm
Justinian, then the price goes up unless the ridership increases.
Comment by Ancientemplar — January 2, 2011 @ 4:14 pm
“… then the price goes up unless the ridership increases.”
What relationship to operating income do “free” riders have? The tribe says “bye” and the system fails it looks like to me. At least absent any real, intelligible numbers.
Comment by justinian — January 2, 2011 @ 4:20 pm
“As far as an agency fouling up, the only parties to the NICE operation are NICE, ..”
Who owns NICE?
Comment by justinian — January 2, 2011 @ 4:20 pm
School buses do not run all day. They have specific times and for a purpose. Semi trucks are NOT allowed to block traffic and most run in town before work starts. It is NOT governments job to provide transportation for FREE. Quit ripping up tracks and put in commuter trains and charge a fee to ride. I have to pay for my gas, maybe the city, county, state or country can fund ME for gas. If people are moving out farther to afford living accommodations then maybe we need to rethink the plan for CDA as a play ground for the elite. I have no problem with the homeless riding the bus to and from potential jobs, doctor appoints, etc. But to stay warm? They can go to CA or Florida to stay warm.
Comment by concerned citizen — January 2, 2011 @ 4:33 pm
Ancient, public transit in the U.S. in general and Idaho in particular will always be a on-year-at-a-time business plan. Congress has to fund transit in an appropriations bill that is always late. That means most agencies must cash flow their operations from their match money at the start of the year and hope the politicians get their act together and fund the balance. Idaho remains the only state with no funding mechanism for public transit, no local option sales tax like WA and no ability to levy taxes. We are at the mercy of local governments coming up with the matching funds, and we’re extremely fortunate that both the hospital and the Tribe stepped up when I approached them for match. It’s the same with cities in the urban area who provide $86,000 annually for match to paratransit.
Just: ‘How much did these vehicles cost? Who paid for them?’ The replacement vehicles were funded from two sources. The first was urban operating funds that acquired one 16-passenger bus and two vans for paratransit, totalling about $88,000 (90% from federal dollars and 10% local match). The other 13 were acquired with 100% stimulus funds of $1.29 million. It was a great deal for the County to replace its entire fleet for less than $10,000 in local match.
And, if the Tribe ‘pulls the plug’, which means they no longer provide the entire match for CityLink, we would have to find other funding partners to keep it going.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 4:50 pm
I don’t have any numbers at all but since the govn’t wouldn’t be involved if the tribe pulled out then……NO free rides. Sorry.
Comment by Ancientemplar — January 2, 2011 @ 4:50 pm
Just: NICE was a nonprofit so it was not ‘owned’ by anyone. It was governed by a Board of Directors but it appears the entity no longer exists.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 4:51 pm
John,
And, if the Tribe ‘pulls the plug’, which means they no longer provide the entire match for CityLink, we would have to find other funding partners to keep it going.
John, I have a funding partner…….the public that rides the buses. Charge them a $1.00 a ride,= $1,200,000/yr. That’s simple.
Comment by Ancientemplar — January 2, 2011 @ 4:57 pm
“It was governed by a Board of Directors but it appears the entity no longer exists.”
Who were the Board of Directors?
Comment by justinian — January 2, 2011 @ 4:59 pm
“The other 13 were acquired with 100% stimulus funds of $1.29 million.”
One time money. I wonder what the financials look like. What reserves? What depreciation?
Comment by justinian — January 2, 2011 @ 5:01 pm
From my home to work in my economy car, it costs me gas and maintenance about $.75 per one way. I see no problem charging each and every individual homeless or not a $.50 fee one way. If they do not like it, let them save and scrimp like the rest of us did to buy our OWN car.
Comment by concerned citizen — January 2, 2011 @ 5:02 pm
“…public transit in the U.S. in general and Idaho in particular will always be a on-year-at-a-time business plan.”
That is another sophistry. There is no “business plan” when the monies are “transfer payments” extorted from the working class for the benefit of the political class.
This is WELFARE, a state responsibility funded by Congress in gross violation of the Constitution, aided and abetted by the political class. It deserves scorn and derision.
Comment by justinian — January 2, 2011 @ 5:16 pm
Where does one get in line to play with all this government money? I want a house on the lake and the inside connections to grease the skids needed to bring a slew of URDs into existence, especially like the millionaire acres up in Dover.
Does one have to work in a government position first in order to feather their own nests to get into such a lucrative living?
Where does one sign up?
Comment by CDAShenanigans — January 2, 2011 @ 5:34 pm
‘One time money. I wonder what the financials look like. What reserves? What depreciation?’
The financials look great. I stated earlier that we included a vehicle replacement reserve in the budgeted numbers. How hard is that to understand? We are setting aside the funds for the county to replace the fleet when it has reached the end of its useful life. That’s good budget practice, one I’ve utilized in every private business and governmental budget I’ve developed since 1979.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 5:43 pm
“The financials look great.”
Right. How do we get a copy?
Comment by justinian — January 2, 2011 @ 5:50 pm
“to bring a slew of URDs into existence, especially like the millionaire acres up in Dover.”
You hit a nerve there. All that the development in Dover has provided to date is $8.2 million in infrastructure, most of it to improve the wastewater plant that was failing before. The development has not been paid back for all of those city improvements because the increment isn’t there yet.
Meanwhile, the development has also built a new four-bay fire station and probably the nicest city hall in Idaho. The city hall sits on 1.000 feet of prime waterfront donated to the city for use as a beach. The bike and walking paths wind through what was once a mill site but is now a thriving estuary. Finally, the old part of Dover has newly-paved streets for the first time in its history.
You can knock urban renewal all you want, but don’t include the small city districts like Dover’s.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 6:08 pm
The county keeps the financial records and they are available by contacting the Auditor’s Office.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 6:13 pm
JohnA, I don’t know you and I don’t have a beef with you. The problem I have is at the County level and it caught my attention that a failed audit exists at roughly the same time the County deputy auditor had real problems known previously to the BOCC. In terms of many other financial statutes KC has melted down and failed all kinds of them the past many years and still. Knowing this the leadership did nothing to stop or fix it. At the helm much more could be done this is why I’m so suspicious.
For example I know of two programs in KC that have been unlawfully operated for a long time that no other County in the State does. One such operation completely ignores the joint powers act if not separation of powers. While an idea might sound good on the surface the law still must be followed and where KC has been concerned the past several years the law represents a mere inconvenience. When knowing the facts such a partner will drag down an entity and add to any controversy.
Why Free? I think that is an issue in itself that many are concerned with. An inability to pay can be accommodated different ways while charging a nominal and fair fee to those who can pay that would only help to procure services for the future. What is the norm where buses are operated elsewhere like Spokane?
Whether it is monthly passes or pay per ride sharing the expense by the users in my mind would help make it more attractive to the stakeholders who are contributing.
Comment by Appalled — January 2, 2011 @ 6:40 pm
You can knock urban renewal all you want, but don’t include the small city districts like Dover’s.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 6:08 pm
But how many were taxed out of the area to benefit the few?
Comment by concerned citizen — January 2, 2011 @ 6:44 pm
Dover Drove out alot of “old timers” with property tax increases. Now Dover,(Rochereau will like this one) looks just like all those glitzy places in California. What’s that called??????
Comment by Ancientemplar — January 2, 2011 @ 7:07 pm
The city of Dover has one of the lowest levy rates in the State, CC. That’s why the $30,000 a year they get as a rebate from their urban renewal district is so valuable to them.
Appalled, you can cry conspiracy and everything else all you want, but the County is not a responsible party in the NICE closure. Look elsewhere if you want, but not there, because ITD made the decision for their own reasons.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 7:11 pm
Ok, guys (or girls) we can argue the merits of free transit or free infrastructure all night, but right now I’m going to watch the Seahawks try to blow the game. Thanks and good night.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 7:20 pm
Ok JohnA now I have a beef. I’m not crying conspiracy at all it is fact and the records do not lie. Both organizations will be better off with new leadership and for the County that is long overdue. Facts are facts and I can fully support everything. Who you hold in high regard speaks little to your character.
Comment by Appalled — January 2, 2011 @ 7:20 pm
Ancientemplar,
It’s called gentrification and displacement. Or as Deanna Goodlander would say, they want the “right people” in town. Neighborhood stability is essential to the long-term success of a neighborhood. The longer people live somewhere, the greater their emotional and economic stake in the neighborhood. Drastic and rapid displacement of community members destabilizes the neighborhood and makes the community members feel less ownership of and responsibility for the success of the community. When people are displaced involuntarily or when they feel as if their sincere desire to have the community succeed and prosper is subordinated to the social, political, and economic desires of a few elitists, the sense of community deteriorates.
Comment by Bill — January 2, 2011 @ 7:34 pm
Right Bill, community doesn’t exist when generations are driven out and the newbies hide behind their community gates and security shacks. Those “right people” destroyed everything they came to North Idaho to capture for their lives. The place is starting to look just like SoCal.
Comment by Ancientemplar — January 2, 2011 @ 8:02 pm
Bill,
If the “ELITE” truly wanted a better class they would clean up their slum rentals in the downtown core.
JohnA,
I have no personal beef with you. I would like you and others involved in government to understand how us “regular” tax paying citizens feel. Voter apathy is the result of a government doing what it wants and no longer listening to its people.
Comment by concerned citizen — January 2, 2011 @ 8:04 pm
JohnA – Please see my last two posts under the discussion for Kootenai County Employee Accused of Embezzlement I feel the information is more appropriate posted there. All of it is easily verifiable!
Comment by Appalled — January 2, 2011 @ 8:52 pm
It must be easy for you to question someone’s character, Appalled, while you hide behind the safety of your anonymity. Why don’t you sack up and reveal who you are. You might have a small measure of credibility.
Comment by JohnA — January 2, 2011 @ 8:59 pm
If you were paying attention to the last thread I just directed you to that came out on the Spokesman’s Huckle Berries Online when requested. My name is Frank Davis and I sir have not one thing to hide so I’m not hiding behind anonymity. As a result of the previous post that started this one everybody figured out who I am except for obviously you.
Since you question credibility I challenge you to find one area where my facts are skewed or anything but facts. Please have at it and since you are such a staunch supporter you’ll no doubt find where the credibility is lacking. Like I said every bit of it is easy to verify.
Comment by Appalled — January 2, 2011 @ 9:23 pm
Blog Manager’s Note: Congratulations, this topic has now passed the 100 mark! I copied 25 comments on this bus issue from the Embezzlement thread and put them at the top of this one, and there have been 80 more, so now we are over the top. Thank you for being part of another interesting public conversation on an important issue. You are great!
You may now resume the discussion.
Comment by mary — January 2, 2011 @ 11:10 pm
Massive failures of oversight and leadership Frank, no question. What amazes me is that instead of acknowledging that, what we get instead are defenses and self congratulatory posts. Oh yeah and praise for failures like Currie and English. Oh yeah, almost forgot the obligatory snipes at the unwashed masses for daring to question the ruling class. Gack. A new year but the same old compost.
Comment by Pariah — January 3, 2011 @ 8:12 am
Pariah: That’s why it’s so easy to be a watchdog in this county. All you have to do is sit back and wait until the government does something stupid. It happens at least once a week when you’re watching.
Comment by Dan — January 3, 2011 @ 8:23 am
Oh well I tried.
Comment by rochereau — January 3, 2011 @ 9:08 am