Here is Monday’s press release from the Kootenai County Clerk announcing the up-to-date results of his office’s examination of the Coeur d’Alene recall petitions. Today’s press release was marked “final,” so I presume any subsequent announcements will come from the City after they have received the results.
Well, Bummer. May be a “Final Update” but it is not unreasonable to ask for a thorough report on the reasons for the rejections. That should be part of a “Final Report”.
Comment by Gary Ingram — June 18, 2012 @ 1:51 pm
It may be that there are many individuals that have incorrect voter information in the voter registration database whether it be the result of the elections office or the voter.
Comment by Ancientemplar — June 18, 2012 @ 4:32 pm
recall drive has failed. what to do?
Comment by murphyk — June 18, 2012 @ 5:02 pm
murphyk,
Learn from the experience and move forward.
Comment by Bill — June 18, 2012 @ 5:07 pm
Well said Bill. The good news is people were awakened to what those in power are trying to do to CDA. This should make the election of 2013 all the more interesting. Also, I noticed at HBO someone has suggested for Kennedy to run for Mayor. Once I got a grip on the uncontrollable laughter that overtook me, and took a few deep breaths I then pondered, how many Canadians does it take to get Mike Kennedy elected? The only plausible answer I came up with, is as many as it takes.
VOTE THEM OUT 2013
Comment by dinosaurman — June 18, 2012 @ 5:19 pm
He won’t run for Mayor, dinosaurman!
I don’t believe he will run again for any political office. Too many people have too much baggage that haunts them, I believe he may be one of them!
I am however, disappointed that this recall effort failed. I was looking forward to letting MikeK know that I recalled him!
Comment by lexacon — June 18, 2012 @ 5:23 pm
Bill, agreed. But, the learning experience will not be completed until it is revealed how many signatures were invalid from paid gatherers, erroneous city voter registration lists, fraud, or other mischief. Any disqualification because 911 address changes should be very important.
Comment by Gary Ingram — June 18, 2012 @ 6:10 pm
So, I took a couple minutes to find out if a friend of mine’s signature was rejected and sure enough I believe it was. I looked into the
http://www.idahovotes.gov/AbsenteeBallot/Default.aspx
and began to place names into this database. The names of individuals whom I placed into this database all voted in the last election. Sure seems weird they don’t appear in this database? Any answers as to why?
Comment by lexacon — June 18, 2012 @ 6:32 pm
Someone needs to look into this?
Comment by lexacon — June 18, 2012 @ 6:34 pm
“Someone needs to look into this?”
I agree, but it will take MONEY and LAWYERS to do that. Time for folks to ante up!
Comment by Pariah — June 18, 2012 @ 6:44 pm
I agree with Gary, there are issues with 911 changes concerning voter information that is updated at the hands of ‘ghosts’ I am not sure how any temps would be aware of a 911 change unless the county was notified on the behalf of the petitioner concerning their signature. The process is kind of rocky …
However, Senators and Representatives have been notified to take a look at the issue, because no one has the right to disenfranchise the voter without their knowledge of updates to their information. In our case, the government took the liberty to do so and got it wrong.
Is this discovery worth a lawsuit? Probably not, the government messes up all of the time, I am just used to it. However, is it worth looking at concerning 911 changes that alter voter information and the only explanation that the petitioner gets is, “Call your phone company?”
Is it worth looking at that voter information can be changed by whomever with no authorization or signature from the voter?
I think so.
What a deal …
Comment by Stebbijo — June 18, 2012 @ 6:44 pm
lexacon,
I can’t specifically answer your questions in 8, but one of the things I’ve learned after far too much experience trying to negotiate the IdahoVotes database during the election contest lawsuit is that you may have to try several times on one person. You also have to be sure to enter “Kootenai” in the county drop-down menu. Has your friend moved out of Kootenai County recently. Any ideas why you think your friend’s name might not appear? If you want to email the name of your friend to me at bill@opencda.com, I’ll have a go at it. It is a finicky and fickle database. I’ll send any response I get to the email address you listed when you registered with OpenCdA.com.
Comment by Bill — June 18, 2012 @ 7:27 pm
All,
Periodically go to the Elections Office and examine your voter registration card. Especially if something has changed, update your information right then and there. In petition actions (initiative, referendum, and recall), what you include when you sign the petition must match exactly what is on your voter registration card according to the opinion of Idaho Secretary of State Ben Ysursa. Especially if you change addresses or your name changes, update your voter registration. You might even ask the Elections Office for a photocopy of it and keep it on file so that in the future, you’ll know what’s on it.
Comment by Bill — June 18, 2012 @ 7:34 pm
Bill that would be perfect, however, that information was updated during last years election! How accurate is the IdahoVotes.gov website?
Comment by lexacon — June 18, 2012 @ 7:36 pm
I have tried several names…
Some appear, some don’t. The ones that don’t, signed the recall petition and voted in the last election. Just weird that they are no longer in this database.
Comment by lexacon — June 18, 2012 @ 7:42 pm
lexacon,
The information in the IdahoVotes.gov website is based on information from the county clerks to the Secretary of State. The database is only as accurate as the information put into it, so the best place for Kootenai County residents to direct questions is to the Kootenai County Elections Office. It’s a good idea for individual electors to go to the office and review their personal voter registration information for accuracy, legibility, and completeness. It won’t take long, and the Office should also be able to verify that the information on the elector’s card is consistent with the information in the Idaho State Voter Registration System (ISVRS). That is the database the Elections Office used to validate recall petition signatures, and I believe that it is the same database from which IdahoVotes.gov gets its data. In the recall election, if ISVRS data seemed inconclusive, the Elections Staff went directly to the voter registration cards on file in the Elections Office.
Comment by Bill — June 18, 2012 @ 7:44 pm
Is the elections department going to release the rejected signatures?
Comment by lexacon — June 18, 2012 @ 7:48 pm
quoteth adam graves on HBO:
Adamjgraves on June 18 at 7:57 p.m.
Everyone keeps talking about healing and coming together. I think thats a pretty optimistic outlook to deal with the decisive and pessimistic people who backed and supported tearing our city apart. They will not stop. And we should keep the wall up and the guns ready.
Comment by chouli — June 18, 2012 @ 9:04 pm
lexacon,
I believe the petitions were returned to the City. If so, you would need to ask the City Clerk for copies of them, probably available on a CD. I don’t know if the County Clerk kept any kind of tabulation about the reasons for signature invalidation, though.
Comment by Bill — June 19, 2012 @ 1:29 am
So, the question is will the FAB4 take heed or will the arrogance continue? Rhetorical, I know.
Comment by concerned citizen — June 19, 2012 @ 6:44 am
Wow, it sounds like there is a lot of opportunity to discard votes in the process for a variety of reasons. Could workers have relied on the database as fickle as it is without consistently working to verify if that was correct? We all have aged but some with afflictions and different disorders will change their signature and not even know it. But could a signature be tossed because it is missing a middle initial maybe? Who remembers what they put on the voter registration card perhaps many years earlier. Just curious?
The process took several days less then what Mr. Hayes set aside so when they sped through the process how much effort I wonder was placed on the discarded votes? I know that the process should have included a supervisor and then one would hope for all discarded votes the registration cards would be viewed in camera but they are not handwriting experts. Who knows what any worker really involved in the process? The rate of discard seemed high enough and I wonder if any additional effort beyond the reasons for discard were employed and some then counted instead?
Comment by Appalled — June 19, 2012 @ 7:25 am
it seems reasonable to expect a listing of invalidated signatures AND the reason for invalidation.
there has to be a reason to justify each invalidation. and if not, why was it invaldidated? if they don’t know, how can anyone else? and the signatures should be countable as valid.
this makes my head spin…(more than usual)
Comment by chouli — June 19, 2012 @ 7:57 am
Appalled and chouli,
I didn’t observe the validation inspections first-hand, however I did speak with Cliff Hayes for about an hour on Sunday. He provided information that may answer some of your questions and respond to some of your comments.
First, here is a link to a June 8th email Recall CdA and the City Clerk received from the County Clerk’s office. It describes the elector validation procedure the County Clerk intended to follow.
ISVRS is the database used, however Hayes told me his staff referred regularly and often to the voter registration cards on file with the County when there were questions about the database results. The ISVRS is the responsibility of the Secretary of State and relies on elector information provided by all Idaho’s county clerks.
It is unlikely an elector’s petition entry would have been rejected solely on a middle initial missing. Understand clearly that the State of Idaho has no signature comparison requirements, so the determination of whether signatures matched would be left to the discretion of the county clerks and their deputies. To the extent you believe signature comparison standards ought to have been set but were not, blame the Idaho Association of Counties, the Secretary of State, and state legislators for failing to write and pass the needed legislation. That legislation would likely have standardized training for skills such as signature comparison by county clerks and their deputies.
As for your question about who remembers what is on our voter registration card, it is my responsibility as a citizen and a voter to ensure that my voter registration information is up-to-date and that I know what is on it. The simplest way for conscientious voters to do that is to periodically review your voter registration card at the Elections Office, update any necessary information, ask for a photocopy of your card, retain that copy, and refer to it whenever you’re taking an action (e.g., signing a petition for recall, initiative, or referendum) which uses voter registration information for comparison. Most important, update your voter registration card any time information you provided on it changes.
My understanding is that all or nearly all decisions to invalidate an elector’s petition entry were reviewed by at least one supervisor.
It is also my understanding that many invalidations were simply because signers wrongly believed that because their mailing address is Coeur d’Alene, ID, they were eligible to vote in Coeur d’Alene city elections. In other words, people who lived outside the city limits but who receive their mail delivery through the main Coeur d’Alene post office assumed they were eligible to sign the recall petitions. Again, the County Elections Office can tell voters in which elections they are eligible to vote. It is the elector’s responsibility to acquire that information and to get it clarified if they don’t understand it.
Rather than relying on my information, I’d suggest going to the County Elections Office and asking for the answers first-hand.
Comment by Bill — June 19, 2012 @ 8:02 am
Every person who participated in the Recall Cda effort deserves a big ‘thank you’ for their efforts. So, Thank You.
Comment by up river — June 19, 2012 @ 3:21 pm
Mary, You and everyone on your committee where very successful in educating the public and alerting the council and mayor that we do care and we are watching.
Thank you and everyone that has worked so hard.
If the election were held today they would be out the door. I looked up my name and the names of 3 other voters that are registered voters to find only two names on the web site, it said the other two names were unknown.
That would be 50% failure on the web site. ALL FOUR OF US ARE REGISTERED VOTERS !
Hummm, makes ya wonder abut their final numbers.
Comment by Jullee — June 19, 2012 @ 3:51 pm
I think everyone in the recall effort did an excellent job. What’s amazing is even though not enough signatures were raised, Mrs. Meyers still had to try to scold Mr. Orzell about Bitterman’s petitions. How much lower can you stoop Sarah? I think this picture of her and her crony Mrs. Drake illustrates properly what transpired. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ogf0qb&s=6
Comment by The Watcher — June 19, 2012 @ 3:52 pm
Yes, a huge thank you to all the recall volunteers and to the organizers also. It was a lot of work and you have endured a lot of unjustified crap thrown at you. I know many of us have nothing but respect for you (and you all know who you are) and thank you for all of your selfless service to this cause.
The recall petition was successful in that we have enlightened the mayor and council that citizens are aware and participating. I am thankful for councilmen Dan Gookin and Steve Adams to carry us thru until the next election…when I hope to see other familiar faces elected to our council 🙂
Comment by chouli — June 19, 2012 @ 4:12 pm
Amazing work – all of you who worked so hard and put yourself out there in face of the ridicule and media frenzy should be very proud of what you gave many of us in this town – and that is the confidence, courage, and inspiration to stand up and make yourself heard.
I enjoyed seeing you all out there – waving to us on the streets and holding your signs.
I wish I had been more involved. I understand the process, however, when you read stories about prosecution and illicit recordings – it gets scary – but still, it would have been worth it. None of you gave into it – you just made yourself more visible.
Absolutely amazing – wonderful, wonderful work!! You really need to very very proud of yourselves.
Comment by Stebbijo — June 19, 2012 @ 5:34 pm
Good post Bill (#23). Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion.
As for the photo you posted Watcher, you are representing why those on other sites don’t have the nicest things to say about the commentary on here. It is disrespectful and of poor taste.
Bill, your posts have been clear, straight forward, and professional and I appreciate that as one of the few ‘outsiders’ posting on here. I would request you remove the post by Watcher as it distasteful and I view it as a smudge on your website.
Comment by meesterbox — June 19, 2012 @ 5:36 pm
meesterbox,
Thank you. I may be doing something wrong, but when I follow the link you referred to, it takes me to a site with the URL http://photobucket.com/recent/. I can’t see any objectionable content; it appears to be photos recently added to that website, but I don’t even see either Jennifer Drake or Sara Meyer. How do I get to the content to which you’re objecting?
Comment by Bill — June 19, 2012 @ 6:08 pm
It appears as though the photo was removed from the website. Thanks Bill.
Comment by meesterbox — June 19, 2012 @ 6:11 pm
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2012/jun/19/d2sign-moms-face-frank-orzell/
DFO: “I watched and listened to this encounter. Sara had just told Frank Orzell that she was disappointed that he’d gone submitted petitions circulated by Rod Bitterman,”
Thank you Mr. Orzell for always being a gentleman and setting a good example.
Comment by LTR — June 20, 2012 @ 8:34 am
LTR,
You are absolutely correct about Frank’s always being a gentleman and setting a good example.
As for Sara Meyer being disappointed that circulator Rodney Bitterman’s petitions were submitted: There was a statutorily prescribed process available to any elector who signed and who subsequently chose to remove his signature for any reason or no reason at all. I think about 14 signers availed themselves of that process and did.
For Frank or anyone else to have summarily decided to not submit an entire petition with two or more signatures simply because one of the signers wanted to remove his would have the effect of Frank’s making the decision to remove the presumed valid signature of the one or more who did not ask to remove his own. That would very likely have been a violation of law as well as simply wrong and unfair to those who wanted their signatures to remain.
Comment by Bill — June 20, 2012 @ 9:42 am
I don’t think the issue was whether Mr. Orzell was being a gentleman or not. After seeing this photo, I contacted Mrs. Meyer and Drake to learn more. The issue was that Frank had told Mrs. Meyer and Drake to their faces (and also to a news reporter) that he was going to remove the petitions submitted by Mr. Bitterman because he was unknowingly using false information, but it was still false. They took Frank for his word and unfortunately were disappointed when they learned the petitions were ultimately submitted. He lied to them and Mrs. Meyer wanted to let Mr. Orzell know that she was disappointed. Sure, Mr. Orzell can be a gentleman, but I don’t think going back on your word is setting a good example in any case.
Comment by meesterbox — June 20, 2012 @ 10:40 am
Why can’t Meesterbox just move on and stop stirring the sh!#. What a troublemaker!
Comment by Fiftysmtg — June 20, 2012 @ 11:08 am
Fiftysmtg – The website is called Opencda.com – Honest Information and Rational Discussion – it isn’t called Onlyopenforthosewiththesameopinions.com. But, if Mr. McCrory or anybody else that runs the website would like to have me move on, they can let me know. I don’t think I am stirring anything, just adding to the rational discussions.
Comment by meesterbox — June 20, 2012 @ 11:26 am
Meester, we’ve disagreed in the past, but it’s time to move on. I’ll wait whilst you finish your victory lap, then we can sit down and have a drink and talk about other things. Berry-picking, or maybe fishing would be pleasant topics to discuss.
Comment by dinosaurman — June 20, 2012 @ 12:28 pm