Yes, this thing is moving forward. Mayor Bloem and NIC President Bell thank you in advance for your tax dollars and silence on the issue. Yes, your taxes are going up. But you want the Education Corridor more than you want to keep your property tax bill low, right?
From the NIC Sentinel, Monday 3/10. An article titled “Educational Corridor more than $400,000 closer to reality“:
“We haven’t made any definitive financial decisions for the project,” Bell said. NIC will need to raise $3 million for its portion of the mill and as much as $2.6 million could come from foregone taxes.
I could repeat my thoughts here, but if you’ve read my other posts you know what they are. If I were to ask one question, it would be this: Why are they so adamant that the voter, the taxpayer, and the citizen not be involved with this project?
Why are they so adamant that the voter, the taxpayer, and the citizen not be involved with this project?
Because it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission, and they fear that if they ask, the answer will be, “No!”. If they ask for permission, that would most certainly cause otherwise indifferent citizens to start paying attention and, horror of horrors, asking questions.
Comment by Bill — March 12, 2008 @ 4:59 pm
Then, I would argue, that it’s their job to sell it to us. After all, as Deanna Goodlander said, “everyone wants this,” then it should be an easy sale, right? In fact, they could stop monkeying around with the financing and just do a bond for it. The sucker would pass easily, right?
Of course, they don’t do that for the reasons you cite. Also, I’m guessing that there is a line of 100 or 200 people who’ve been made certain promises and whose financial future is depending on this thing sliding through with no-questions-asked. I trust that if I’m wrong, I’ll get a phone call alerting me. I’ll just sit by the phone and wait.
Comment by Dan — March 12, 2008 @ 5:05 pm
Doesn’t the collection of foregone taxes inflate the budget the following year? Does that inflated figure not become the base on which the following year’s 3% maximum increase can be calculated? I’m not a fan of foregone taxes. Particularly in a recession or near recession, how does one budget for the possibility of foregone collection? This would almost require every taxpayer to set aside the foregone every year whether they can afford it or not. While people with good incomes might be able to do this, it seems unlikely that people on limited fixed incomes could. Maybe someone can explain this to me?
Comment by Bill — March 12, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
Happy to explain, Bill.
Taxing entities in Idaho can budget for the following year using this formula:
Highest of the last 3 year’s budgets + new construction values + 3% = maximum budget for following year
So say a taxing entity has had previous years budgets of:
$900,000
$1,000,000
$1,100,000
They can set the next year’s budget to $1,100,00. Then they add in the value of new construction on the property tax rolls. Say that’s another $100,000, so you have $1.2M for next year’s budget. They don’t have to, but they can take up to 3% over that: $1.2M x 3% = $36,000. So the next year’s budget can be as high as $1,236,000.
When they don’t take the full 3%, it becomes “foregone.” Not gone-gone, but foregone. Which means gone but not forgotten. Every year that they don’t take the full 3%, they get to have that “remembered.” So if they don’t take 3% for 3 years in a row, they have stockpiled a 9% increase in foregone.
Yeah, that would hurt when times are tough.
Of course, there is a method here. The method is that foregone be taken only out of necessity. In other words, they survived without it for a long time so when they take it it should be for some type of dire situation. When NIC used foregone a few years back for salary increases, it upset a lot of people.
Regarding your next question, yes. By taking foregone they obviously increase their budget. They can then use that higher budget to base higher budgets for the years to come. It never goes away. They find a way to spend it instead of cutting back and giving the taxpayer a break. (And they don’t view us as happy partners, either.)
Yes, taking foregone hurts people on fixed incomes the most. The whole issue I have with our property taxes is precisely that they are unpredictable. Mine went up 20% last year. I’ve averaged a 25% increase in the last 6 years I’ve lived in the City. It would be nice to have some stability, or at least be getting a massive amount of services in exchange for those increases.
Comment by Dan — March 12, 2008 @ 5:58 pm
Dan, thanks for the explanation. Even I can understand that now!
Comment by Bill — March 13, 2008 @ 7:04 am
Just a very small background info. I have been fortunate in this life to a good education as well as wide travel and varied life experiences. That is to say, my life has been anything but insular. Still, (and I have lived in another small town) I have never experienced the atmosphere that prevails in this area. Not only CDA, but Hayden as well. The information for the citizens is out there. It’s their money for heaven sake. And Lord knows, I have done my fair share of talking. Still, no matter, no change. Voter turnout is appalling. The laisez faire attitude, “what can we do, it has always been this way”, is discouragingly defeative. The bottom line, directly put, the CDA government and its addendum group are down right dishonest in their dealings with the public. And with the shell games they play with public money. Disingenuous doesn’t begin to cover it. Yet year after year, it continues. What is wrong with these people! Ignorance? Stupidity? I can’t figure it out.
This is an excellent site. Well prepared and researched information. Bright people. But we are preaching to the choir. I regret to say, I believe the prevailing attitude here will never change. Apparently the majority of the indigenous population are too ignorant and or self absorbed to care. Sandi, Tony and all the rest just laugh all the way to their next plan. If you cannot effect change, why get your knickers in a twist? And I have seen absolutly not one iota of change. The status quo just goes their merry way. Pity!
Comment by Diogenes — March 13, 2008 @ 10:08 am
Addendum group being (of course) the LCDC.
Comment by Diogenes — March 13, 2008 @ 10:10 am
Diogenes, I know it’s easy to get discouraged, but people are starting to pay more attention. It’s a slow process but the city is making it much easier with their choice of actions. Mandatory sidewalk compliance for regular folks while LCDC hands out buckets of public money to developers does not sit well with voters. And now water rates will be increased?! Just wait until people see how much their taxes will jump for the Education Corridor that they have no public meetings to discuss. It’s one step at a time, but I have faith that we CAN improve the transparency and accountibiity of our local government.
Comment by mary — March 13, 2008 @ 10:45 am
I have my own theory about this area. Folks here are in a state of “apathy” which is a form of “learned helplessness.” Learned helplessness happens when one is abused to the extent that there is no way out. These folks have also learned the “results” from other prior victims. Learned helplessness is also a form of psychological torture. It breaks down the person to accept the conditions and ultimately blame themselves – which is what the torturers want and have successfully succeeded in doing so in this ara. The citizens of this area are being abused. Abusers like to also attack at the financial level. What is happening here local to Coeur A’lene Idaho is social abuse. Our government leaders are not “laissez-faire” but have really adopted a management syle that appears more like fascism.
Another thing that some of our hegamonic leaders might be considering is -when they raise the water rates – they would also like to put lithium in it.
Comment by Stebbijo — March 13, 2008 @ 11:51 am
Very funny, Stebbijo! I’m sure they would like to spike our water with some Valium or Prozac as well…just follow us, don’t ask questions.
Comment by mary — March 13, 2008 @ 12:21 pm
Mary…change better speed up. I’m too old to buy green bananas! 🙂 Stebbijo, thanks for the guffaw. Perhaps they have been putting lithium in all along. That might explain the prevalent apathy! On the serious side, your theory is interesting. But for “social abuse” to be as successful as it is here, the victims must also be enablers as they aren’t helpless. But, perhaps, having seen what the entrenched establishment can do, the prudent person thinks better safe than sorry.
Comment by Diogenes — March 13, 2008 @ 12:22 pm
Meaning no disrespect but most of the people around here look to be led. They prefer working their lives and not being troubled with government details. In the past all their government did do was essentially menial and of little consequence. But that is changing and these people are the ones who are hurting. Their incomes buy less and their futures are less bright regardless of how industrial they are. They see the finer parts of their city and countryside being bought up by outsiders. They find it hard to accept that their government is selling them out. They need more sirens, just like this web site. Their churches need to beckon their flocks to see the dishonesty and make the changes. An avalanche calmly builds its peril over time and falls in but an instant. The times are a changing.
Comment by Wallypog — March 13, 2008 @ 12:44 pm
Granted Diogenes – my learned helplessness theory is a stretch. It grabs at a community not a person. Calling the oppressed – “enablers” is like casting blame on all those folks who were murdered in the gas chambers. I always wonder whey they did not fight back while they were naked? However, I toy with the new coined term, “apathetic enablers, that’s a good one.
There is another term I like and that is “fear appeal.” Believe me, it works here. When folks are afraid to put a candidate’s political sign in thier window – something is very wrong! Also, I will never forget when I needed representation years ago and the lawyer said he could take the case because he would get rocks through his window. Another one would – he just needed 10 thousand dollars and like sums.
So, I empathize with the apathetic – because abuse per any kind of it – works. Financial abuse is especially effective. One might also term the “prudent” person as just – a disinterested party.
Comment by Stebbijo — March 13, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
oops!
could NOT = could
Comment by Stebbijo — March 13, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
I want to know if anyone knows who is teaching the next stakeholder class? Is it Jim Elder? Is it Mike Kennedy? Will it be held at the old library? I need to sign up.
Comment by doubleseetripleeye — March 13, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
Stebbijo, you are so right about the culture of intimidation that goes on around here. That’s one of the reasons we started this web site. People can use this forum to speak out, discuss and vent about local issues, all without fear because their identities are protected. We just need to convince people it is safe. They can speak up. Their views matter.
Comment by mary — March 13, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
I served on a board here and watched the beauracracy at its finest. The powers that be assumed that I would play their game. At one of the meetings, I had questioned a VERY large sum of money that was presented to Riverstone from LCDC and I was chastised for doing so. That very week my business suffered the loss of many clients consisting of one council person, the council persons family members, a few developers and their family members, along with key real estate brokers, agents and their family members. My families very livelihood was threatened because I would not play their game.
This is how CDA works. Only a select few are allowed to capitalize and the rest are to be submissive to the chosen few. I believe this is why people do not vote. They have been beaten down and are afraid to speak up.
Comment by concerned citizen — March 13, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
So with some of this added content – I would like to elaborate a little more on my ‘community theory.’ What we have here in CDA and other parts of Idaho(most of it)is a community example of the Stockholm Theory – loyalty to a more powerful abuser. That explains why we have “apathetic enablers,” some folks think they still have to align themselves with the “abuser” to survive. They suck up in other words – to stay on the ‘perceived’ more powerful side to save themselves from social persecution and/or possible financial repercussions. Those folks are also victims of “learned helplessness.”
It’s been a long time since I pondered my explanation – but I think of stuff that makes sense to me so I can survive and understand. I also like to throw in a twist of Kurt Lewin and his Change Theory,sometimes also referred to as Learning Theory. We need to look at the local government as “change targets” and educate them. We might be noted as “change agents” “who become a facilitator in the learning process and the desired change has to be embedded in a “helping process” that makes sense to the learner.”
I will gladly donate 10 bucks to a lawyer/group who can sue the pants off the city et al. for violating open meeting laws and/or everthing else – so these folks can learn. It’s either that or real tomatoes! 🙂
Comment by Stebbijo — March 13, 2008 @ 3:49 pm
I forgot to add that I resigned from this position.
Comment by concerned citizen — March 13, 2008 @ 4:00 pm
Such bully tactics can work in a small town. But this city is growing. The county is growing. Things will change.
Comment by Dan — March 13, 2008 @ 4:43 pm
Concerned Citizen–what a powerful and sad story. The culture of intimidation is alive and well in our sweet town. We have got to put a stop to it. I have certainly experienced it firsthand myself. I’ve also heard from several people about the attacks they’ve endured. One of the candidates in last Fall’s city council race nearly lost his job immediately after the election–an effort by “pay back” politics. Another person told me they had vigorously questioned their tax assessment from the county, and one of the now former county commissioners contacted the person’s boss and tried to get them fired. There’s a long line of people who have tried to stand up for what’s right. Again, one of our goals with this forum is to let people protect their identities while voicing their opinions. Thanks, CC, for doing the right thing!
Comment by mary — March 14, 2008 @ 10:06 am
Mary – How would you do this? Considering the culture of intimidation – how many people would stick their necks out to be counted – when so many know how it really is?
I wonder if the anonymous folks could file complaints with the justice department – or the FBI? If you know these folks would they be willing to complain in that respect?
But, go ahead and sign me up – with or without my frontal lobe. 🙂
Comment by Stebbijo — March 14, 2008 @ 10:25 am
P.S. My above post was in regards to the Stakeholder plan on the other thread.
Comment by Stebbijo — March 14, 2008 @ 10:53 am