Is the economy coming back? Are there signs of recovery? Here’s what the CdA Press had to say this morning:
“In Coeur d’Alene, the total value of building permits in May 2009 declined to $6.6 million, compared to almost $27 million in May 2008. The biggest drop came in the commercial sector, with only $277,230 in permits issued in May 2009, compared to more than $22 million in May 2008.”
They go on to detail a tiny rise in residential starts, but is that in response to demand or in advance anticipation of some sort of recovery?
What are your thoughts on the future of our local economy? Any other comments, questions or ideas?
Here’s a link to the Bureau of Labor Statistics Economy at a Glance data that covers more than just construction in Coeur d’Alene.
Here’s a link to BLS Economy at a Glance data for the entire state.
Comment by Bill — July 12, 2009 @ 8:10 pm
Speaking of real estate and dismal the Riverstone auction was this weekend. Does anyone know how that went?
Comment by Wallypog — July 13, 2009 @ 6:01 am
Wallypog,
Didn’t I hear it had been postponed again, supposedly so prospective buyers could get better financing?
Comment by Bill — July 13, 2009 @ 7:41 am
The auction was rescheduled for August.
The hospitality industry in this resort town is the true indicator of the economy. Has there been any word on how they are faring?
Comment by Susie Snedaker — July 13, 2009 @ 7:42 am
Susie,
The Coeur d’Alene BLS-EAG data I linked to in Comment #1 shows a slight increase over April 2009 but an overall decline in the past 12 months in the Leisure and Hospitality category.
Comment by Bill — July 13, 2009 @ 7:51 am
There are 3 categories showing a rise in employment. One is healthcare, another is the hospitality/service industry and the last one is gov’t. Too bad gov’t doesn’t actually produce revenues.
Comment by Wallypog — July 13, 2009 @ 8:37 am
Since our business is related to the hospitality sector, I can tell you that convention bookings are up for 2010. Corporations seem to be betting the recovery will be in full swing by then. But you can be sure that many will cancel if they don’t see real improvement.
Comment by mary — July 13, 2009 @ 8:40 am
Bill, in your response in post #3 to Wallypog would it be correct to say that the auction was postponed again so that prospective buyers COULD BE FOUND?
Comment by yabetcha — July 13, 2009 @ 9:33 am
yabetcha,
Maybe. It’s logical that the auctioneer and the seller would want as many prospective buyers as possible. I don’t know if or how the auctioneer prequalifies or selects prospective buyers. It seems to me the design concept is now working against the developer/seller. For mixed use to be viable, both have to be present at the same time. “You can walk to nearby retail stores” works to sell condos only if there are desirable retail stores nearby. Likewise, “the folks living upstairs” are potential customers for retail only if there really are lots of folks living upstairs above the retails. With one or the other lagging, sales will also lag. Eventually it may work, but maybe not for the original developer.
Comment by Bill — July 13, 2009 @ 9:54 am
I can assure you that the auction was postponed because of lack of interest. They significantly reduced the prices and extended the registration period for prospective bidders. I think this is their 2nd delay. Still the upper end condos should be around $120K and the lower end units around $70K. The units offer zilch and are no more upscale than any run of the mill complex. Does anyone know how much their HOA fees are? Are their any mechanics liens in process? Is the construction bonded?
I don’t think they formally prequal bidders but they see to it that the bidders are serious about their participation. You don’t get a bid paddle without some checking. The auction will be video taped and winning bidders documented. There will be no backing away from a successful bid. In this case I believe they require a hefty certified deposit check up front.
Comment by Wallypog — July 13, 2009 @ 10:19 am
Wallypog,
Good info. Thanks!
Comment by Bill — July 13, 2009 @ 10:33 am
Anyone else turn their heater on today?
Comment by Dan — July 13, 2009 @ 11:39 am
No, just enjoying the respite from the heat and cooling down the house in preparation for the next wave. And somewhat seriously considering a condo. Does anyone know if there are any restrictions against renting them? I see that there are ads for the Bellerive condos nearby (on craislist), but nothing for Riverstone itself. Basic though they may be, at these low prices they could at least be awash financially for a time if they can be rented.
Comment by eq72521 — July 13, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
Nevermind, I found someone in Federal Ways that owns a one bedroom and is renting it out (or at least trying to).
Comment by eq72521 — July 13, 2009 @ 12:41 pm
Err, Federal Way.
Comment by eq72521 — July 13, 2009 @ 12:41 pm
eq72521,
It seems to me the developer/seller would have an obligation to meaningfully and clearly inform prospective buyers that unsold units might be rented. Failure to make that disclosure would be perilously close to misrepresentation by omission, bait-and-switch. If I were a prospective buyer, knowing some of the units might turn into rentals would certainly affect my decision to make an offer to buy.
Comment by Bill — July 13, 2009 @ 12:57 pm
Bill, I know of no requirement to advise prospective buyers of any occupancy rules. It could be in the CC&R’s but it would be up- to the buyer or their agent (ha ha) to scour out the info. Certain lenders have their own criteria that consider the owner occupied status of a condo development. That is typically the reason it is ever considered in the CC&R’s. For awhile apartments were undergoing conversion to private ownership. Lenders would not lend on such projects until a certain owner occupancy rate was achieved. Buying a condo has a lot of risks associated with the complex. Condo owners can be subject to major one time assessments if needed to amend a project. If the condo project gets sued all the owners are on the hook for the judgement. Even owner occupancy can be a problem. Who will enforce it? Who gets to rent and who does not? How is it monitored? Can you rent a room or sublet for part of the year? The caveats apply. Assume the worst and look to CYA. As a condo owner you are part of a bigger entity with various rules, obligations and responsibilities and consequences. BTW if the builder retains ownership of most of the units they can also manipulate the CC&Rs any way they want. They have the majority vote.
Comment by Wallypog — July 13, 2009 @ 3:03 pm
Wallypog,
All very good points that prospective buyers should consider.
Your last statement about the builder retaining ownership isn’t limited to condos. We live in Coeur d’Alene Place, and the homeowners association board is Greenstone (Jim Frank, Jason Wheaton, and Gary Schneidmiller). Homeowners can give advice but cannot have the majority vote until a substantial amount of the project has been built out.
Comment by Bill — July 13, 2009 @ 4:35 pm
I found it curious and a bit insulting (due to the city and lcdc proposed funding) that Riverstone brought in an auction firm from Beverly Hills to conduct the auction.
I think the full page ad for Mill River (Hold Your Breath) indicated that Riverstone condo rentals were permitted.
Comment by Susie Snedaker — July 13, 2009 @ 7:19 pm
Riverstone never has been about or for the city or the citizens of CdA. The concept was for short term stay condos for an elite subculture choosing to make CdA one of their periodic haunts. They are really quite useless as residences and very well suited for an eating out and being entertained type of lifestyle. From the git-go they were probably slated for property managers to keep in their portfolios renting them when their owners were not interested in this neck of the world. That they opted for an upscale auction house also caters to this market. You can bet that the auction was liberally marketed to the Vail/Manhattan/Monaco crowd. What is hampering the interest in that group is that the condos are really not of the luxury level they desire. John Stone built a fast cash project for a thin demography. The units are not practical enough to live in or posh enough for those who can still afford them. Change the name of the development to Albatross Landing.
Comment by Wallypog — July 14, 2009 @ 6:40 am
Wallypog,
Your comment #20 is an interesting observation. What in the condos’ designs make them quite useless as residences (I assume you mean continuous residences as opposed to short visits). What makes them not practical enough to live in? If your observations are correct and if the units do not sell for their intended purpose, what will it take to make them sell better? Or can they? How does Riverstone’s design and construction compare or contrast with Chesrown’s Bellerive condos and Hagadone’s Terraces?
Comment by Bill — July 14, 2009 @ 7:03 am
Wallypog, your explanation of the condos and their usefulness is very educational. I thought they were originally designed as Riverstone’s own “workforce housing”, so the people working in the shops and restaurants could live right nearby, at least that’s what I recall the Riverstone people telling us when I was on P&Z and they were proposing the buildings. But later, when I heard the asking price was about $220-250k, I knew the waitstaff at Azteca would not be buying one of them!
Do you think they will be used as short term rentals only?
Comment by mary — July 14, 2009 @ 8:22 am
This condo concept was done elsewhere successfully. Building condos in an upscale town clustered about high end shops, restaurants, entertainment and recreation attracted the Yuppy crowds. It is like living in Disneyland or the French Quarter in New Orleans. Go downstairs and you’re in party land (or exercise land). Your housing and vehicles are secure, everything is close by and there is no maintenance needed to sustain the lifestyle. All you need is money. You do not plan on bigtime shopping for food that must be hauled upstairs. You don’t make daily meals. The miniature kitchen is snackland for drinking and hors-d’oeuvres. Stack washer and dryers are not for routine serious laundry loads. You attend the unit when you need a break or a vacation. It is not located where you earn your living. It is located where you want to unwind, relax, party and enjoy. It is a scaled down Blackrock for the young active professional. Look at all of the Riverstone marketing material and that is what’s depicted. This is why the project tanked when the economy tanked. That is a demography heavily impacted by the downturn and these sorts of unnecessary expenses were the 1st to be eliminated.
The young professionals were the primary target customer but the units might fit certain well-to-do empty nester’s. They would still be vigorous enough to deal with the travails of multistory living and might fit well into such limited quarters. But they need to find empty nesters with a lot of cash and good, solid retirement income (or good jobs). But the lack of quality construction and poor amenities won’t attract many of these types either.
If they can’t sell them outright they will either rent them directly or shift the effort into shared condo market.
Comment by Wallypog — July 14, 2009 @ 8:51 am
You mean Time Shares?
Comment by mary — July 14, 2009 @ 9:59 am
I remember looking at the brochure when the condos first came out. I was underwhelmed. Even the exterior is bland. I know people have said the same thing about Chesrown’s condos, but I actually like those and the prices are more attractive (as is the location).
For the type of part-time-resident Wallypog speaks of, I think Parkside would be a better option. Those units are at least classy on the inside, not the heavy, suffocating interior of the Riverstone condos. And Hagadone nailed the high end with his Bose-stereo condos by the golf course.
Anyone else remember when Riverstone was touted as a high-tech research park?
Comment by Dan — July 14, 2009 @ 10:27 am
Dan,
Maybe I’m thinking of the wrong condos, but I’ve never been a big fan of old corrugated tin as a design feature. I guess Chesrown bought into the Seattle Industrial Look, but they too closely resemble the Palouse country grain elevators.
If the Riverstone condos don’t sell, then what? There have recently been builders in other parts of the country who have bulldozed new but unsalable houses in developments. Would our City declare the Riverstone Condos to be “blighted” so that LCDC could dump a ton of urban renewal money into them to make them marketable?
Comment by Bill — July 14, 2009 @ 11:30 am
I had to go downtown this morning to run an errand. Now, I know why I never go downtown. I don’t even bother going to the library anymore. What a mess.
Aside from the mess, can anyone tell me about those wierd arrow signs on each corner that specially line out each business – except for maybe the ones that say ‘lawyers’ on each corner?
I was so busy reading those little arrow signs that it was difficult to find a street address. Are they permanent? Personally, I did not like them and thought they were a distraction to one’s driving and a bit odd looking. Is it supposed to go with some sort of theme centered around the rennovation of Midtown?
Comment by Stebbijo — July 14, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
I think the arrow signs are to remind people of the businesses they cannot access while the street is being fixed.
Comment by Dan — July 14, 2009 @ 2:42 pm
Stebbijo: The orange and black arrow signs are there to point you to businesses, typically on fourth street, that are being affected by the heavy construction there, because you can’t just drive right by them for now. Is this (the construction) the mess to which you refer, or is there something else? It is annoying, but it should be over by Autumn.
Dan: Parkside is all sold out now, right? They did finally take down the gaudy “Life looks better from here” banner. Also, Bose, at least the modern stuff, is not high end, and I would hope residents of the lakeside condos (which started at $5M IIRC) have better taste. Not that I don’t have a set of AM5s from when I was young and foolish (and cramped for space in a dorm)…
Comment by eq72521 — July 14, 2009 @ 2:56 pm
Thanks for answering my concerns about the arrow signs.
That makes sense that the signs might be there to redirect folks to different parking areas so they can walk to their business of choice, in case they forgot it was there? They are just funny to read especially with the Lawyers on several of them – I have never seen this method of identification during a construction phase before. It crossed my mind that it might be a new way to advertize.
Comment by Stebbijo — July 14, 2009 @ 3:50 pm
Yes, I was equally perplexed/amused to see that, especially on some where there are two or three arrows saying, “Lawyers.”
Comment by eq72521 — July 14, 2009 @ 4:03 pm
The mayor and council had dollar signs in their eyes when they thought of the affluent who would be living in the highrises. It appeared to me that they thought that these new owners would be hobnobbing with locals. Riverstone condos might work for timeshares. I would think that the Chesrown condos could be marketed as fractionals due to their location. By the way, I thought the corrugated Seattle look was yesterday’s news. It reminds me of the exterior of the now defunct Larry’s Market in Bellevue.
Comment by Susie Snedaker — July 14, 2009 @ 8:00 pm
I wonder if the corrugated architecture is supposed to look like lumber sheds from days gone by because that is what I think of every time I drive into Riverstone.
And the answer to Dan’s question in post #25 is: Formerly it was a high tech saw mill, about 75 years ago. That’s when a steam driven engine powered a line drive through the mill with lots of belting and pulleys to operate the various saw milling equipment. The high tech occurred when everything was converted to electric motors and the boilers were used only to supply steam to the head rig and the dry kilns. I used to sell these kind of mills belting and water treatment chemicals.
Comment by Gary Ingram — July 14, 2009 @ 9:31 pm