Now I’m angry. I emailed my 12 questions (see them below) into NIC’s board, as instructed, and Kent Probst, their PR guy, took my questions and re-wrote them on 3×5 cards. But he changed them. He only took bits and pieces of them. And it wasn’t just my questions. Rep. Frank Henderson brought a question with him, they took it at the door, but then they re-wrote his also, watering it down.
I have a family obligation this morning, but will write all about this sham of a meeting later today.
I’ll leave you ,for now, with this visual image: the panel, from left to right: Moderator Mike Patrick from the Press, Cyndie Hammond from LCSC, Larry Branen from U of I, Mic Armon, NIC Board, Priscilla Bell, NIC President, Sandi Bloem, CdA Mayor, Charlie Nipp, LCDC Chairman. That’s the lineup. Now imagine this: The other 4 NIC Board members were sitting directly behind the panel on the stage, under the big presentation screen, literally in the dark. You could hardly see them. They never said one word. They are the elected Board members who will make the decision about buying the Mill site for $10 million, but only Mic spoke for the Board. More later. Here’s the “more”:
110 people attended the meeting, the Press reported. There were only 32 questions asked. I sent in 12 questions, though many were never addressed and those that were had been re-worded by an NIC administrator. The moderator stopped 3 times to ask the audience to write more questions. So, what was with the huge majority of people filling the room? Why did they have no questions?
This was the first time any real information about the Education Corridor has been presented to the public by NIC, the City or LCDC. And even at that, there was very little fact. It was mostly generalized, idealized description. No specifics, no plan, no projections, no numbers other than the $10 million price tag. No appraisals, no traffic counts, no details what so ever. And 100% of the information was in favor of the Ed. Corridor. There was no balance. It was not a true educational event, it was a promotion; an advertisement.
So why weren’t there more questions from this audience? And why weren’t all of my questions answered, as I wrote them?
At the end of the meeting, Moderator Mike Patrick from the CdA Press, asked everyone to “vote” by raising their hands to show if they were FOR, AGAINST or UNSURE about this Ed. Corridor. It was an awkward and uncomfortable moment for anyone not enthusiastically in favor. The room was full of supporters.
How could these people, who had listened to only one side of the story and had not asked questions—-how could they know enough to vote at all?
I voted AGAINST, but really should have voted UNSURE. I am AGAINST the heavily controlled, strictly limited and manipulated communication by NIC, the City and LCDC. I am AGAINST committing the taxpayers of Kootenai County to an enormous, ongoing investment without proper information and open, free dialog.
I am FOR improving and expanding higher education in North Idaho. I am FOR increasing and enhancing our technical/practical education at both the high school and college level. But I am UNSURE of the Fort Grounds as the best location for this expansion, and the meeting last night at NIC offered no true education on the subject.
Wow. So most of the board was literally in the dark. 🙂
I’m curious about who was in the audience. Great hay is being made of the fact that 85 people raised their hands in favor of the project. Who were they? Likewise, I’m certain if a show of hands were made at the Education Forum last week, you probably would have seen all 100 hands raised in opposition to the forum. But without knowing who was in the audience, raising hands is a silly measure of public support.
Comment by Dan — May 23, 2008 @ 7:27 am
Mary,
I remember Mike saying that if two ro more quesitons were the same, they would combine the questions as to not be redundant. I am guessing that’s what happened, as I thought they were true to the jest of your question. I had read your questions before I went to the event last night and I thought your questions were addressed.
I also thought Mike asked some of the toughtest questions of the evening and then several times asked for tough questions from the audience.
Have a great Memorial Day weekend everyone! 🙂
Comment by Mark W Altman — May 23, 2008 @ 7:36 am
Of course,NIC will find a way to
buy the mill site.Deep down we all know this will happen eventually.
Why does Mr.Chesrown have to be involved in the first place and buy the Mill land,to hold it for NIC?And
not make a profit from it.My gut reaction is he is looking for some kind of leverage or concession from
the city.No rich developer does something just from the kindness of their hearts.
Comment by kageman — May 23, 2008 @ 9:40 am
Sounds like a sham forum to me. Is this raising of hands suppose to replace a real vote by the public at election time? They may buy the land, but how are they going to build the buildings without floatng a bond? With the negative opinions by the taxpayer, they will end up just like the CdA Schools when they were no longer trusted by the public. Voters will remember them passing up an option on affordable land. Oh, I forgot LCDC will build it….no vote involved!!!!
Comment by Mama Bear — May 23, 2008 @ 9:43 am
The Chesrwon role has had no scrutiny. It should. Ditto the Meyer-Nipp connections.
Comment by Pariah — May 23, 2008 @ 9:54 am
No, I did not think many of my questions were addressed. When you re-word someone’s question, you can change the intent and focus. For example, one of the very simple questions I wrote was, “How much money has LCDC given, pledged or committed to the Ed. Corridor project? What tax increment, if any, do they plan to get in return?”
This question was not a duplicate. It was not inappropriate, it was not irrelevant. Yet Kent Probst from the NIC administration, re-wrote my question to ask only “What tax increment do you expect to get?” Charlie Nipp’s answer was basically, “we don’t know yet”.
There were other questions I asked that were never answered and some that were just watered down. Sad way to conduct the public’s business, Mark.
Comment by mary — May 23, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
“Sad way to conduct the public’s business, Mark.”
Whose business Mary? It is the Inside Connection that matters, NOT the public. No appraisal, no vote, no actual public hearings — just millions for the Insiders.
Comment by Pariah — May 23, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
I am not sure what an apprasal of the land value will tell you. If you ask me, the land isn’t worth anything. Literally,I wouldn’t pay the tax bill to own it. However, it is worth quite a lot more than 10mil to a land-locked organization that needs to expand and can’t afford to totally relocate. So the appraisal is just what one person or oraganization thinks the land is worth.
Mary,
Do you know what other questions were asked? I don’t think they ever showed a list of all the raw questions, so someone may have asked a quesiton like yours which caused them to try to lump all the questions like yours into one generic question on that topic. They may have also felt that asking all 12 of your questions would have prevented other people from asking their questions. I don’t know that either of those statements are true, I just think they are plausible explanations.
Mark
Comment by Mark W Altman — May 23, 2008 @ 1:29 pm
This gathering on the Education Corridor was a sham. Everyone on the panel tried to mislead the people who were in attendance. They insinuated that we who are against this plan have suggested that want them to sell the property that the campus is on and move the whole college to the Prairie. Where in the world did that comment come from? Someone is hearing voices about subjects that don’t exist. Sad, very sad! Of course they said, “that would be a dumb and outrages idea”….DA, even they seem to be bright enough to see that. However, spending $10 million dollars on 17-acres is a no brainier…., and that is just for the land. A good class in economics would help them all.(maybe)I think they all have their heads buried very deep somewhere….They said 85 people agreed? Ha, I don’t think they can count either. We really did needed some help there last night! A dumb show of hands, but you can see what they are doing with it…. They think it is their pass all the way to the bank. They won’t bring it to the public, because they are cowards.
Comment by longshot — May 23, 2008 @ 2:16 pm
Mark, I have a digital recording of the meeting, so I know what questions were asked. And I know that several of mine were not, despite the three different times Moderator Mike Patrick had to stop and ask the audience to write more questions.
Longshot, you are right on. It was frustrating to hear them use up the clock with their absurd notion that people want to tear down the current campus and move the whole thing. No one wants that! They also used up precious time lecturing on the value of “educating the human mind” and informing us about how important education is to our life choices. We agree! Stop arguing the obvious and get to the real information we are looking for: why expand on this expensive land-locked property with all kinds of potential costs and problems, when we have other very good options to consider? But, because of their restrictive rules, we could not stand up and politely say so. We had to just sit and listen.
Comment by mary — May 23, 2008 @ 3:03 pm
I HATE political responses!
Comment by concerned citizen — May 23, 2008 @ 4:42 pm
This example of our leaders at work is really distressing but makes a point on how things really work up here. However, what can you expect from people who claim to have VISIONS?
This is serious social illness at work driven by overspending – sometimes known as manic episodes in indviduals. However, extreme cases include a cooperative sharing of VISIONS and may develop into a very serious social disorder. We should be very concerned about these VISIONS. This type of behavior that will ultimatly raise taxes and eventully backstrap the city into bankruptsy is because they are doing this all in the name of VISIONS and VISIONARY thinking and DREAMS that ‘they’ claim the public/community is having. Thise folks are psychotic. They do not want to connect with the public. They are withdrawn pathetic individuals who suffer fror grandiosity and VISIONS and they lack empathy. It is called Megalomania, a form of grandiosity and narcissim with underlying symtoms of impulsiveness. They frequently deny anything is wrong with them. Their misperceptions lead to frustration and decreased ability to communicate with others.
Genocide is an extreme example of Meglamania. Serial killers also suffer from it. It can be a contagious social epidemic. Unfortunately, this type of disorder does not improve without treatment. Unless treatment is in their near future, count on their behaviors to destroy lives because they strive for a new life for themselves, one of individual salvation. They want their picture in a museum after they die or a monument risen in their name.
Some of the victims of meglamania suffer from cognitive dissonance and strive to understand while they still play the game. However, they just create new ways of thinking to validate while they are so uncomfortable. This leads them closer to salvation. They will pay for studies that ‘study’ their opposition to validate their visions. These folks cannot process rational information.
One particular social mania we know of was called Nazism
Yep – it fits.
Comment by Stebbijo — May 23, 2008 @ 6:03 pm
OH the things I could do if I only had Bill Gates’ or Donald Trump’s money.
IT IS VERY EASY TO DREAM WITH OTHER PEOPLES MONEY!
The problem is, it is just that, other peoples money. Tax payers money. Shouldn’t we the people have a say in how our money is spent other than basic maintainance or emergency?
Comment by concerned citizen — May 23, 2008 @ 7:52 pm
CC, that’s so true. NIC Trustee Mic Armon was telling me, after the meeting last night, that he doesn’t like Foregone taxes but doesn’t think a Bond levy would pass. I said, “Mic, you’re putting your hand in other people’s pockets and taking their money. Don’t you think you should ask them?” Our local leaders have forgotten that they were elected to run the school or the city, but when it comes to OPTIONAL big projects they need to ask the people!
Comment by mary — May 23, 2008 @ 8:02 pm
I just have to ask. Has there been a single project, plan or policy here in CDA that you guys collectively have been FOR? I have now seen a couple of things that each of you have been against, but nothing you have been in favor of. No alternative plan, no helpful suggestion, just the unrealistic suggestion that government stay out of our lives. So help me out, just for a day or so share with each of us what you are FOR and ignore for a minute what you are against.
Comment by Mark W Altman — May 23, 2008 @ 10:41 pm
Mark, I’m taken aback by your comments. I am relentlessly FOR responsible government. I have been working constantly FOR open communication. I am FOR voter’s rights and FOR responsibility to taxpayers…I could go on and on. Specific projects by the city that I support? I’m IN FAVOR of well-managed growth that does not take money out of the taxpayer’s pockets in order to turn a profit for the developer. CdA Place would be one example of that and there are more but it is late. I SUPPORT big public projects if the taxpayers have been given a vote. I’m even IN FAVOR of careful use of urban renewal…like the first money given for infrastructure to get Riverstone started. I am FOR parks and open space, and headed up the city’s committee to study it. I’m FOR smart land use planning and donated 6 years of time on P&Z. And I’m seriously FOR quality education at all levels and volunteered for years on school committees.
But, Mark, the thing I am most FOR in this community is open, honest and responsible government…and I’m positive about that.
Sweet dreams.
Comment by mary — May 24, 2008 @ 12:54 am
Mark,
I AM for money spent on a library or even a few locations throughout the city that is/are accessible to ALL residents. One that goes out to open bid to ALL contractors and not built on land owned by “STAKEHOLDERS”.
I AM for a family, boys and girls center that is not owned by a religious organization. Again, one that goes out to open bid to ALL contractors and not built on land owned by “STAKEHOLDERS”.
I AM in favor of monies spent on repairing and building schools but I am not going to give an open wallet to those that have misused my funds in previous years.
I AM in favor of building parks and open spaces in ALL subdivisions and communities but do not believe rich developers need tax money for parks outside of their “for profit” highend condos before others that have been promised theirs.
I AM in favor of the most beautiful education facility that has room for expansion for years to come and is accessible to all.
I AM in favor of a rail system that can move people in all directions instead of more freeways.
I AM for a government for the people and by the people.
Does that help?
Comment by concerned citizen — May 24, 2008 @ 6:12 am
Mark, I am also in favor of open and transparent and honest government. As a former Planning Commissioner of eleven years for the city, my eyes were opened by the issue of a zoning violation in my neighborhood in which a boarding house was operating that housed parolees including two registered sex offenders. The issue is one that the city simply ignored rather than address the issue in public. Were they unaware of the sex offenders in the community, or did they choose to keep this secret fearing that the image of the city be tainted. This is, after all, a public safety issue. Because it appeared to me that the city was not going to take a leadership role regarding state legislation for the issue of sex offenders residing near schools and parks, I personally organized a meeting of the legislators other officials and the public to address the issue a few months later. As you may know, legislation was enacted during the next session.
The covert way in which the city handled the Person Field issue also raises serious questions about the way in which the city does business. No public discussion took place regarding the Memorandum of Understanding signed by the city. In fact, the MOU was discovered after the school district Planning Meeting by a citizen. Yet the city felt their handling of the issue acceptable. I still find it totally unacceptable. Person Field is still an unresolved issue for many in the city.
I expect nothing less than open, honest and responsible government.
Comment by Susie Snedaker — May 24, 2008 @ 6:29 am
For as long as I lived in North Idaho, I supported every SD 271 levy. Doug Cresswell was an honest Super. Get honest people and an honest process and voila`, honest results. Oh yeah, I helped out in a big way getting the sales tax hike that built out the new jail. I raised money for the PF Schools and for private schools. Ditto the Lake City Playhouse.
Now Mark maybe you can tell us what taxes you have OPPOSED or what local government abuses you have spoken out against?
Comment by Pariah — May 24, 2008 @ 6:36 am
BTW Mark, I also believe in government spending for maintainance and emergency issues. Everything else should go to a vote of the people. Weren’t we taught in grade school that majority rules and not to take cuttsies? After all, aren’t we all “STAKEHOLDER” since we all pay taxes? Doesn’t majority rule apply here? If it is good it will pass. If it is not good or even not the proper timing it will not pass.
Comment by concerned citizen — May 24, 2008 @ 6:48 am
“If the college is going to have long-term debt, it would be my suggestion to get an advisory vote,” Henderson said.
That’s not likely to happen, said Christie Wood, a member of the NIC board of trustees.
“The timing is the issue,” Wood said. “We have to move fast. The college has never done an advisory vote. I believe that I am elected and that’s a vote.”
Comment by Pariah — May 24, 2008 @ 6:54 am
I will write more later, but I want to be clear about something. I did not intend to offend anyone, I was merely pointing out that our discussion seemed to me was focusing on the negative side of the equation. I was hoping for a little “appreciative inquiry”, that is focusing on the positive and what we are FOR, not what we are against. If I offended anyone that certainly was not my intent as all of you have been gracious to my seemingly unending “devil’s advocacy”.
Comment by Mark W Altman — May 24, 2008 @ 9:10 am
citizen said “Doesn’t majority rule apply here? I”. maybe in a pure democracy, but not necessarily in a republic. should we also have a direct vote every time a fire truck is purchased?
Comment by reagan — May 24, 2008 @ 10:47 am
“should we also have a direct vote every time a fire truck is purchased?”
If it costs 10,000,000 just to start, well maybe.
Comment by Pariah — May 24, 2008 @ 10:51 am
reagan,
Not if it was purchased with monies collected from developers in impact fees for the area that they built. Same with schools, police substations, etc. I am with Pariah. If it is not a matter of emergency then, yes put it to a vote. I believe if you can validate with good reason you will get a majority vote. But just because you want a shiny new fire truck, then I would have to say no. There are a lot of pretty new things that I would like to have but I have tuition to save, retirement, health care to be concerned with. The last thing I need is a shiny new car to impress someone with. My old one is still running just fine.
Comment by concerned citizen — May 24, 2008 @ 2:56 pm
Remember Duane Hagadone’s “gardens” project? It would have cost the taxpayers little or nothing, but it entailed re-routing a main downtown street. Mayor Sandi Bloem decided that it needed to go to a vote of the people. Mr. Hagadone disagreed and said the officials were elected to “make the hard choices”.
Now fast forward to the present and the Ed. Corridor issue. It will cost $10 million dollars just to start the project in the Fort Grounds, with untold millions needed after that. It will change the face of CdA forever. But Mayor Bloem now says NO to a vote of the people. She says elected officials need to “make the hard choices”. Hypocrisy in action.
Comment by mary — May 24, 2008 @ 7:51 pm
The challenge we have in putting “it” to a vote is how many people would take the time to learn the important aspects of all the issues that would come to vote under that model of governance? How many would vote at all, educated on the issue or not? There is a real strength to “hiring” a professional politician to manage public affairs and that advantage is that they have the time and hopefully experience to research the issues.
Comment by Mark W Altman — May 24, 2008 @ 9:03 pm
Mark,
What you describe is called totalitarianism. In a republic, the people are the sovereign, we choose. Vox Populi, Vox Dei.
Comment by Pariah — May 24, 2008 @ 9:25 pm
Mark,
Now maybe you can tell us what taxes you have OPPOSED or what local government abuses you have spoken out against?
Comment by Pariah — May 24, 2008 @ 9:33 pm
Pariah,
I have not described totalitarianism. What I have described is called “trustee representation” the idea of which was largely born out of the Enlightenment. In a Republic, a strict Republic, what you choose is your leaders and then your leaders make the decisions. You do not get a say in those decisions until the next election and then the say you get is on whether you rehire those representatives. In a Democracy, a DIRECT Democracy, you do get to choose. EVERYTHING. You vote on every action that comes before the people. It is highly inefficient, and very time consuming, which is why there are few direct democracies left in the world.
As to your other question, I have not seen anything I would characterize as an abuse of government. I have seen policies I believe to be misguided, but I could see how someone in good faith could come to a different conlusion than I did. I take matters of honor seriously and would never accuse someone of wrongdoing or illegal activity unless I could prove it. I see FAR too much of that kind of behavior here in these blogs.
Comment by Mark W Altman — May 24, 2008 @ 10:07 pm
Mark,
Sorry, you want a European system where the people have no voice nafter electing the ‘professional’. America was founded on the New England Town Hall. We revolted against the Euro model 22 decades ago. We want citizen legislators and a direct voice. Hence the initiative and referendum elements of the Idaho Constitution.
That you have NEVER seen an abuse of government or a tax that you opposed speaks volumes.
Comment by Pariah — May 24, 2008 @ 10:12 pm
I am happy to continue this tomorrow. Let me close by saying I was referring to NI over the last few years when I said I had not seen an abuse of government. Of course, I can look across the nation and historically and find any number of abuses.
Comment by Mark W Altman — May 24, 2008 @ 10:16 pm
I hope we all log on to the CDApress and vote. For, Against, or Neutral. Lets click our mouse to show where our heart is.
It’s time to stop bickering. Good nite!
Comment by longshot — May 24, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
I don’t believe any function of government is too important to be de-linked from public scrutiny and accountability. Too often, especially here in Kootenai County, people get offended when anyone asks a question. We have a right to question authority, to dissent, and to demand responsibility of our government officials, especially the elected ones. They are not princes, but too often they sadly act that way — and then get all bent when someone like myself points it out.
Comment by Dan — May 25, 2008 @ 3:49 am
Stebbijo; Right on, the fall of the ROMAN EMPIRE comes to mind, I see a lot of towns/citys declaring bankruptcy for that very reason I also see the potential for the same here, give the kid a choice of a Toyota Corolla and twenty bucks for gas or a Porsche and a Visa with no limit and which would they choose?
Comment by casper — May 27, 2008 @ 5:53 am
Regarding the poll vote in the CDA press, does anyone have any idea why the vote FOR the idea to spend $10 million dollars for the corridor expansion is soooooo much higher than the vote OPPOSED? Or, am I way off base here in my idea that this is a very poor and unwise decision?
I’m afraid they are going to count this FOR as their vote of confidence from the public in making their decision that we agree that it’s OK to buy this property. Heaven help us….
Remember…..go out and VOTE today!!
Comment by longshot — May 27, 2008 @ 11:49 am
On-line polls are fun but appallingly unscientific. It’s very easy to fool the on-line poll and vote again and again and again. To do so on the CDA Press poll, you simply remove any CDAPress cookies saved on your computer. Also remember that the college is organized. CDA City Hall is organized. The LCDC is organized. And the developers who stand to make millions on the Education Corridor are organized and eager. The regular citizens have no voice.
One other point: It’s early. Give it time.
Now, on the upside; if the results are so positive, then it simply cements the fact that an advisory vote on the topic would come out in their favor. But because they recognize the dishonestly of the on-line voting, they still will refuse to take this to a vote of the people.
Comment by Dan — May 27, 2008 @ 11:58 am