Here are some differences between the Education Corridor and Tubbs Hill. (I pulled this from the Open Session summer topic.)
A. Tubbs Hill is a hill; the Education Corridor is flat.
B. Tubbs Hill is a park, the Education Corridor is not.
C. Tubbs Hill doesn’t have any buildings on it; the Education Corridor will be covered with buildings.
D. Tubbs Hill is next to a park; the Education Corridor will be next to 2 miles of new development along Northwest Blvd.
E. Tubbs Hill features a water reservoir, the Education Corridor features a Wastewater Treatment Facility.
F. Tubbs Hill provides miles of waterfront access, the Education Corridor, well, we don’t know how much access the public gets; that information is being kept out of the public eye.
G. The facts about Tubbs Hill are known, the facts about the Education Corridor are secret.
H. There are no traffic problems created by Tubbs Hill, the Education Corridor will create more traffic on Northwest Blvd, as well as strain on downtown’s infrastructure.
I. Tubbs Hill was saved by citizens like Scott Reed, the Education Corridor is promoted by politicians and people who stand to make a ton of money from its development.
June 22, 2008
Is the Education Corridor the next “Tubbs Hill”?
{democracy:9}
22 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post.
Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.
Here are some questions from Kageman:
Does Marshall Chesrown stand to gain anything from the Education Corridor? Is the pending
‘mill site’acquisition by Mr.Chesrown;(to be sold later to NIC)
a way of ingratiating himself with our city officials,so he can later get approval on another development he has in store for this area.
Comment by kageman — June 22, 2008 @ 8:30 pm
Comment by mary — June 22, 2008 @ 9:09 pm
Kageman, Marshall Chesrown has the 70 acre Atlas Mill site just down the river, away from the Wastewater treatment plant, where he’s planning a large, mixed use development. Both the Atlas and the DeArmon Mills were owned by Stimson, and Marshall bought the rights to both. It was probably a package deal. Some people think he had to buy the rights to the DeArmon Mill (next to the sewage plant) in order to get the Atlas site (very nice location).
Both of the mill sites are being sent through the City’s Annexation process at the same time. They both are currently in the County, but will need to be annexed into the City so they can get fully adequate water and sewer services. They also have to be in the city before LCDC could even consider giving them tax incentives, if you get my drift.
The Annexation process is very individualized. The fees that will be paid are negotiated for each property by the City’s Legal Dept. The City can also ask for special considerations, like the donation of parks or pathways and accesses along the river. Deals are made.
So, as you can see, there are many possible areas for “ingratiating” benefits.
Comment by mary — June 22, 2008 @ 9:21 pm
Keep in mind the development of the Atlas mill site when you pay your water bill this month. Yes, your water bill will be higher. That’s because all citizens are paying higher rates. The City said that the higher rates are to promote conservation. But in the new rate package, you’ll find that they cut the rates for large water hookups by 50%. That means all rate payers are subsidizing the developers who normally pay those hefty water hook-up fees. A coincidence?
Comment by Dan — June 22, 2008 @ 9:30 pm
1. …It was probably a package deal. Some people think he had to buy the rights to the DeArmon Mill (next to the sewage plant) in order to get the Atlas site (very nice location).
Deals are made. So, as you can see, there are many possible areas for “ingratiating” benefits.
Comment by mary — June 22, 2008 @ 9:21 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interesting speculation on the Package Deal… OK, so let’s say cash-rich developer wants parcel “C” (condos) for future development. Seller has said parcel, along with another parcel, “T” (turds) and insists on only selling them together as a package, knowing parcel “T” has some serious stank development issues.
Further, let’s say, for example, parcel “C” has a fair market value of $25 mill – and parcel “T”, being generous, is worth $5 mill. Well this is easy… developer pays the $30 mill for both, stipulating in the contracts that parcel “C” is $20 mill and parcel “T” is $10 mill. Developer then resells parcel “T” at “cost” to an ignorant and arrogant governmental entity.
Our children’s education is saved; taxpayers get the parcel at “cost” – yahoo!!! The developer is a hero for holding the property for us peons. Everybody wins, right!!!
Uh… wait a minute…
Taxpayers get a royal screwing. Developer gets his choice parcel at a $5 million taxpayer subsidized discount and earns perks in his annexation agreement from the mayor.
Someone please remind me why the mayor is negotiating this deal…
Only in Coeur d’Alene!
/end realistic speculation.
Comment by Damn Yankee — June 23, 2008 @ 12:21 am
>Someone please remind me why the mayor is negotiating this deal…
So who should be negotiating this deal?
Comment by conspirasseur — June 23, 2008 @ 1:11 am
The party purchasing the property. Technically that’s the taxpayers of Kootenai County, represented by the NIC Trustees. Why aren’t they doing that? It’s one of the key issues that makes me question this deal.
Comment by Dan — June 23, 2008 @ 5:56 am
The city has the obligation to enforce the adopted Shoreline Protection Ordinance – an ordinance seemingly forgotten or ignored these days.
Comment by Susie Snedaker — June 23, 2008 @ 6:38 am
Note to Dan, Here ,Here! Let Dans comment be a reminder that the city council and Mayor are supposed to be there carrying out the Taxpayers wishes! Not their Own! The Taxpayers(us)are the ones voting on any public plans,well,we are supposed to anyway. That is the way our society originally set the system up as we all have our voice.But—Thats not the way it is anymore,along with our Govt at the top. They are there now to line their pockets and use the taxes on whatever their wishes are without any input! If we had any say so,we wouldnt be in Iraq right now! Democracy? Ha
Comment by cityspy — June 23, 2008 @ 7:33 am
Damn Yankee, Thank you for articulating the situation! Now we understand the possible “quid pro quo”. The question remains, is any river front at the Atlas site going to be saved for public use? Is the only public river front going to be by the ugly sewage treatment plant? It always ticked me off that Riverstone gave the city Goose Poop Park instead of river front.
When is Kootenai County going to start crying “Uncle” on the tax shift to the county? Listen up guys, you live in the Kootenai County. Put the pressure where it might do some good….on the county level!!!!! Join forces with ticked off county people, short changed county departments, the over taxed rural communtiy, and elected officials. The County is short on money.
Comment by Mama Bear — June 23, 2008 @ 9:54 am
Just a teeny point, Mama Bear: Riverstone does not even touch the Spokane River. John Stone sold the river front property to Mr. Chesrown, who developed the Bellerive condos and homes. Because Bellerive does encroach upon the river, there is public access through the “lofts” to the docks and boardwalk.
Comment by Dan — June 23, 2008 @ 10:03 am
Dan, what a deal.
Just another tiny point..Goose Poop Pond was suppose to be a “put and take” fishing pond for the community kids…a presentation was even put on at the North Idaho Flycasters concerning this…. Fat chance with he plastic liners! Can you image them allowing kids to be pulling smelly fish from their pond and screaming with delight?
Comment by Mama Bear — June 23, 2008 @ 10:25 am
Damn Yankee, interesting scenario of deception, greed, stupidity, arrogance (and as is said from the musical, CHICAGO), “all these things we hold near and dear to our heart”. But a question please, has there been an appraisal on the Atlas site, your “parcel C”, that makes you suggest its value is $20 million?
Comment by Gary Ingram — June 23, 2008 @ 10:43 am
Gary, wouldn’t any appraisals of the Atlas and DeArmond Mills, obtained by Chesrown, be private documents? We still haven’t seen or heard about the appraisal of the DeArmond Mill that NIC has ordered.
Comment by mary — June 23, 2008 @ 11:03 am
I just want to make a teeny,tiny point.First and foremost,it is my contention that ‘Goose poop pond’was
built so stones’people could charge more money on their condos,as anything near water generates more money.I don’t think the millionaires
living there, would like to see kids fishing at the pond all day.
What a travesty that we the taxpayers,had to front Stone three million to build a pond,we can only look at.
Comment by kageman — June 23, 2008 @ 11:05 am
kageman, I don’t know if it currently on the electronic reader board on the entrance to Riverstone off Seltice Way, but very recently it displayed as one of the features of Riverstone an image of a young man diving into the forbidden pond from a shoreline rock! More deception.
Comment by Gary Ingram — June 23, 2008 @ 11:12 am
John Stone is a savvy businessman. He’s much smarter than our city leaders, in my humble opinion. I don’t fault John for squeezing every possible advantage out of the system. (I wouldn’t do it, but I like to sleep peacefully at night), I fault our elected leaders and their lack of oversight for LCDC.
There was nothing illegal about Stone aggressively pursuing public funds to change his big, open sand pit (think Kroc pit) into a pond, rather than John himself having to pay to fill it in. So he got almost $4 million from LCDC and then supposedly got an even bigger deduction from the IRS for donating the land, which he was required to keep in open space anyway. This way the city parks dept takes care of it. And, as Kageman said, Stone can sell his condos and commercial pads for much more, since they look over the pond-by-the-river-by-the-lake. Smart business. Shortly after that John Stone was said to have purchased his $10 million private plane.
Comment by mary — June 23, 2008 @ 12:25 pm
Gary,
All my numbers were made up (other than the $10 mill for the ed corr parcel) just to make the point of what could happen. Just speculation and food for thought.
And to be clear… if the mill/seller and developer/buyer did this.. that is perfectly fine. They can determine their own contracts.
The problem is with the government then stepping in to purchase without adequate due process, IMHO.
Comment by Damn Yankee — June 23, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
Let’s do some Fun Monday Math!
Assuming a package deal:
Atlas Mill Site, 80 acres.
Stimson Mill Site, 17 acres.
Value of Stimson site is $10M or $588,235 + change.
Assume the same price per acre for the Atlas Site. You come up with a purchase price of just over $47,000,000 for the Atlas site.
These figures are for comparison purposes only; your mileage and tax increase may vary.
Comment by Dan — June 23, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
I might add that the so-called assessment (and I believe that they’re only doing one, and for good reason), must confirm that the price is $10 million. If it’s any less or more, then it wrecks the entire package deal. So no matter what, my guess is that the assessment will be exactly $10 million.
Yes, folks, there will be an OpenCdA public records request of the assessment and we will go over it here with a fine toothed comb.
Comment by Dan — June 23, 2008 @ 12:56 pm
Oh, and another thing. Commercial transactions often require a 20% down payment. $47M + $10M = $57M. 20% of that is $11,411,764, which is very close to that $10M. Coinkidinky?
Comment by Dan — June 23, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
Dan, in this town as you are well aware many commercial transactions are often done with OPA. When these properties are annexed, I am certain the back scratching will begin.
Comment by doubleseetripleeye — June 24, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
Is the Education Corridor the next
“Tubbs Hill”? If developers keep building condos near the Spokane River,it could be.Community activism
could sprout up,as the Spokane River
developments continue.Don’t we already have enough condos built for several years now?Don’t forget that
CDA condos,is still in the works to be built just NW of Riverstone.
The Spokane River needs alot of green spaces for the wildlife and some parks for the public.I’m not talking about the parks that the city owns in Mill River and Riverstone,those parks are really for the people who live in those developments.I like the park the BLM has across the bridge on I-95,on the west bank of the Spokane River. Couldn’t this area use more parks like that one?
Unfortunately,today land is so expensive it seems that,even if someone like a Scott Reed were to rise up to save parts of the Spokane River from development.It would be very hard to come up with the money to.Sure the people could line up a conservatory group,apply for a federal conservation grant/with
matching funds but, could this community come up with half the asking amount?Especially,when the prices are $500,000 an acre.When Mr.Reed saved Tubbs Hill from development the price per acre was
around $6600 an acre,back in 1975.
Could the public help to save parts of the Spokane River from the predatory developers?Would Hagadone help?
Comment by kageman — June 25, 2008 @ 1:19 pm